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*x*                                                                     *x*
*x*            Copyright (C) 1995 University of Pennsylvania            *x*
*x*                                                                     *x*
*x*    The data in this file are part of a preliminary version of the   *x*
*x*    Penn Treebank Corpus and should not be redistributed.  Any       *x*
*x*    research using this corpus or based on it should acknowledge     *x*
*x*    that fact, as well as the preliminary nature of the corpus.      *x*
*x*                                                                     *x*
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FILENAME:	2221_1013_1018
TOPIC#:		341
DATE:		910324
TRANSCRIBER:	glp
UTT_CODER:	lsh
DIFFICULTY:	3
TOPICALITY:	3
NATURALNESS:	2
ECHO_FROM_B:	2
ECHO_FROM_A:	2
STATIC_ON_A:	1
STATIC_ON_B:	1
BACKGROUND_A:	1
BACKGROUND_B:	1
REMARKS:        None. 

============================================================================
  

qo          A.1 utt1:  What do you think about, {F uh, } the way the criminal justice system handles trials? /  

sd          B.2 utt1:  {D Well, } {D you know, } they tell you that you get tried by a jury of your peers -- /  

b          A.3 utt1:  Yeah. /  

sv         B.4 utt1:  -- {C but, } {D you know, } it's pretty hard to try, {A let's say, } the man down the street that's living on Social Security or somebody that's on a  limited income to be tried by a jury of his peers if most of the people, - /       



sd          B.4 utt2:  {D like } the juries that I've served on, are businessmen. /  

b          A.5 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

b          B.6 utt1:  Okay  /
sd          B.6 utt2: now they don't understand that, {D you know, }  maybe he needed fifty dollars /
sd*         B.6 utt3: {C so } he held up the seven eleven. /  *[[Seven Eleven]]

b          A.7 utt1:  Yeah. /  

b          B.8 utt1:  Okay  /
sd          B.8 utt2: they don't understand that because they have fifty  dollars,   

x          A.9 utt1:  <Throat_clearing>.   

+          B.10 utt1:  all the time,  /
sv          B.10 utt2: {C so, } {D you know, } I think that  [ it, + ] a trial by your peers should be exactly that, someone in your own age bracket,  /
sv          B.10 utt3: [ someone that, + ] {D you know, } you can't really do it ethnically, {D you know, }  /
sv          B.10 utt4: {C but } [ you could do it, +   

b          A.11 utt1:  Yeah. /  

+          B.12 utt1:  you could ] probably get it a little closer.  /
sd          B.12 utt2:   {C But } then there's another thing that I disagree with in Texas is sometimes you have a jury of six  /
sd          B.12 utt3: {C and } sometimes you have a jury of twelve. /  

b          A.13 utt1:  Yeah. /  

sd          B.14 utt1:  {C And } I don't know why they do that.  /
qy          B.14 utt2:   Do you have any reason,  /
qy          B.14 utt3: do you know of any reason why they do that? /  

sd          A.15 utt1:  {D Well, } I think the six is called a Grand Jury  /
sd          A.15 utt2:  {C and } that's mostly to decide whether or not the person's actually going to stand trial. /  

bk          B.16 utt1:  Okay,  /
%          B.16 utt2: see <<very faint>>. /  

sd           A.17 utt1:  Whether they're acquitted or whether they're actually  going to be accused [ of, + ] {D you know, }   

b          B.18 utt1:  Okay <<very faint>>. /  

+          A.19 utt1:  and held over for trial. /  

sd          B.20 utt1:  I don't know much about the Grand Jury.  /
qw          B.20 utt2:  How do you feel about the, - /
sd           B.20 utt3: in Texas I noticed since I've been here, [ in + ] twelve years  that [ they, + they ] break up [ the, + the ] trial and then the sentencing part of the trial. /  

b          A.21 utt1:  Yeah,  /
h          A.21 utt2: I don't know.  /
%          A.21 utt3:  [ I, + I ]  think that, {F uh, } - /
sd          A.21 utt4: I know that judges aren't supposed to be crooked.  /
%          A.21 utt5:  However, -/  

sv          B.22 utt1:  {D Well, } we know there's a few out there. /  

aa          A.23 utt1:  Yeah.  /
sv           A.23 utt2:  It seems like if you break the sentencing away from the jury and  [ give it, + you give it ] to one person you're  letting there be a whole lot more of an opportunity for something to either go wrong  /
%          A.23 utt3: {C or }  for, {D you know, } - /
sv          A.23 utt4: [ [ if, + if, ] + if ] the judge is not of high moral standards --   

b          B.24 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

+          A.25 utt1:  -- he could be bought off, much easier --   

b          B.26 utt1:  Yeah  /
%          B.26 utt2: it's, -/  

+          A.27 utt1:  -- than twelve people could. /  

aa          B.28 utt1:  Yeah,  /
sv          B.28 utt2: would be pretty hard.  /
sd          B.28 utt3:  {D Well } [ I don't  think, + {D you know, } I don't think ] that, if I was the criminal, that I would like the judge passing sentence on me.  /
sv          B.28 utt4: If the jury found me guilty, then they should be able to  decide at the same time what my punishment should be.  /
%          B.28 utt5:  {C And } I think  it's, - /
sv          B.28 utt6: not only that, it's a waste of our money.  /
sd          B.28 utt7: We have to have a trial for this person,  /
sd           B.28 utt8:  then two weeks down the road we have to [ [ sente-, + sent-, ] + ]  {E excuse me, } set a sentencing date --   

b          A.29 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

+          B.30 utt1:  -- so now we're back in court again  /
sd          B.30 utt2: {C and }  that's more money spent. /  

sd           A.31 utt1:  It's not so much [ that I, + that, I haven't ]  seen a lot of really bad sentences passed either by trials or by judges.  

aa          B.32 utt1:  No. /  

+          A.33 utt1:  What bothers me is that, {F uh, } they really don't mean  anything.  /
sd          A.33 utt2: Someone could be sentenced to thirty-five years  /
sv          A.33 utt3: {C and }  yet, {D you know, } [ the, + the ] parole system, it's going to let them out [ in, + in ]  three years for good behavior. /  

sv          B.34 utt1:  {C And } it's not working either. /  

aa          A.35 utt1:  No,  /
aa          A.35 utt2: it's not. /  

sv          B.36 utt1:  It seems that we have more and more repeat offenders. /  

b          A.37 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

aa          B.38 utt1:  I know,  /
sd          B.38 utt2: I don't know how you all are there where  you're at,  /
sd          B.38 utt3: {C but } where we're at, now our jails are overcrowded.  /
sd          B.38 utt4:  We just built a brand new one two years ago. /  

sv          A.39 utt1:  {F Oh, } I think they're all overcrowded. /  

sd          B.40 utt1:  {C And } it's overcrowded. /  

%          A.41 utt1:  They've, {F uh, } -/  

sd          B.42 utt1:  {C So } now they start turning them loose. /  

sd           A.43 utt1:  I think I heard Fort Worth that, {F uh, }  they've been ordered to do something because their jail is so overcrowded.  /
sd          A.43 utt2:   They're not allowed to accept any new inmates.  /
qw          A.43 utt3: Now what are they supposed to do? /  

sd          B.44 utt1:  They turn them loose. /  

ar          A.45 utt1:  {D Well, } no,  /
sd^r          A.45 utt2: {E I mean, } they're not allowed to accept any new inmates. /  

b          B.46 utt1:  Yeah. /  

qw^r          A.47 utt1:  {C So } what are they supposed to do with people that they need to put in jail?  /
%          A.47 utt2: {D You know. } -/  

sd          B.48 utt1:  {D Well, } [ the way, + it seems the way ]  it's been working here's, -/  

%          A.49 utt1:  There,  {D yeah, } -/  

ad*          B.50 utt1:  Go ahead.  /  *[[ LISTEN - are utterances 1 and 2 really from the same speaker? ]]
sd*          B.50 utt2:  It seems the way it's been working here is they let those out that have spent two or three years out of their five to twenty sentence,   

b          A.51 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

+          B.52 utt1:  or five to life. /  

sd          A.53 utt1:  Something that is working - /
sd          A.53 utt2: {C and } [ I, + I ] really like the system of house arrest where [ [ a, + a, ] + ]   

b          B.54 utt1:  Yeah  /
%          B.54 utt2: that, -/  

+          A.55 utt1:  [ someone's wear, + someone wears ]  a bracelet --   

b          B.56 utt1:  Yeah,  /
%          B.56 utt2: {C and } [ they, +   

+          A.57 utt1:  -- like a ankle bracelet that's a monitor, /  

+          B.58 utt1:  They ] keep, -/  

sd          A.59 utt1:  {C and } they are not allowed, - /
sd          A.59 utt2: {E I mean, } [ th-, + ]  some of them are even allowed to work,  /
sd          A.59 utt3: they can go to their regular job,  /
sd          A.59 utt4: they come home,  /
sd          A.59 utt5:  they have to be home by such and such a time,  /
sd          A.59 utt6: they're instructed, {F uh, } so  that, [ this, + this ] electronic monitor --   

b          B.60 utt1:  Yeah. /  

+          A.61 utt1:  -- is turned on at, at a certain time  /
sd          A.61 utt2: {C and } it connects  them up to a system where they know their whereabouts./  

b          B.62 utt1:  All right. /  

sd          A.63 utt1:  {C And, } {F uh, } they can put a, - /
sd          A.63 utt2: they usually install a video monitor in the house  /
sd           A.63 utt3: {C and } when the parole officer calls to check on them, they're instructed to turn it on and stand in front of it.    

b          B.64 utt1:  All right. /  

+          A.65 utt1:  So that they can see that this person is actually  at home in their house doing what they're supposed to be doing  /
sv          A.65 utt2: {C and } that's  working rather well.  /
sv          A.65 utt3: That's a good system.  /
sv          A.65 utt4:  That allows people,   

aa          B.66 utt1:  Yeah,  /
o@          B.66 utt2: it would allow,   *[[ slash error ]]   

+          A.67 utt1:  to actually continue to be productive members  of society while they're, {D you know, }   

+@          B.68 utt1:  Yeah,  /
bf          B.68 utt2: instead of being completely penned up. /  

+          A.69 utt1:  paying back for whatever crime they've committed. /  

sv          B.70 utt1:  {C And } that way it would give, {D you know, } - /
sd           B.70 utt2:  the probation department and parole department, they've got to be overloaded with as many criminals as we have here [ in, + in ] Lubbock. /  

b          A.71 utt1:  {F Oh, } yeah,  /
b^r          A.71 utt2: yeah. /  

sd^r          B.72 utt1:  {C And } that would give, {D you know, } - /
sd          B.72 utt2: at least they don't have to drive all over town trying to find one guy,   

b          A.73 utt1:  Uh-huh.  /
%          A.73 utt2:  [ I, + I've ] really, -/  

+          B.74 utt1:  or trying to see six or seven people. /  

sd          A.75 utt1:  I could go on for hours about the criminal justice system and what I think we ought to do about it.  /
sd          A.75 utt2: {C But, }   

sv          B.76 utt1:  Sometimes it's pretty messed up,  /
^g          B.76 utt2: isn't it. /  

+          A.77 utt1:  Something that I really don't understand is when someone goes to jail --    

b          B.78 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

+          A.79 utt1:  -- and they have a job in jail and they work, that they should, - /
%          A.79 utt2: I, - /
h          A.79 utt3: {C and } this may sound cruel,  /
sv          A.79 utt4:  {C but } I do not think that they should be allowed cigarettes.  /
sv          A.79 utt5:   {E I mean } they're in jail for crying out loud. /  

b          B.80 utt1:  Yeah. /  

qh          A.81 utt1:  What do they need cigarettes for? /  

%          B.82 utt1:  {D Well, } {D see } - /
sd          B.82 utt2: {C and } there's another thing  about the justice system that I don't like /
sd          B.82 utt3: {C and } there's a lot of people that tell me  [ that, + that ] maybe my thoughts are wrong.  /
sd          B.82 utt4: I came from California -- /  

b          A.83 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

sd          B.84 utt1:  -- {C and } when you're in jail, they take you out just like they do in Alabama or anywhere else, what they call a chain gang. /  

b          A.85 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

sd          B.86 utt1:  {C And } they clean the city parks. /  

sv          A.87 utt1:  {F Oh, } I think that's a wonderful idea. /  

sd          B.88 utt1:  {C And } they clean the city streets.  /
sv           B.88 utt2: {C But } {D you know, }  we have criminals in jail that do nothing but sit on their duff all day  /
sd          B.88 utt3: {C and } here it costs us seventeen to eighteen thousand dollars a year to support a prisoner, /  

sd          A.89 utt1:  More than that. /  

%          B.90 utt1:  {C and } I know,  /
b          B.90 utt2: yeah, /  

sd^r          A.91 utt1:  More than that. /  

sd          B.92 utt1:  {C but } I know families myself that have three and four children in Lubbock that don't make that much. /  

aa          A.93 utt1:  I know. /  

sd          B.94 utt1:  {C And } [ they're not, + {D you know, } they're not ]  doing anything to support themselves,   

sd          A.95 utt1:  [ The thing that, +   

+          B.96 utt1:  while they're there. /  

+          A.97 utt1:  the thing that ] gets me is that while we're supporting them,   

x          B.98 utt1:  <Cough>.   

+          A.99 utt1:  they're working. /  

b          B.100 utt1:  Yeah. /  

sd          A.101 utt1:  When they get out of jail they get handed all that money. /  

b          B.102 utt1:  Yeah. /  

sd          A.103 utt1:  That really ticks me off.  /
sv          A.103 utt2:  I think that while they  are in jail and they are working, their wages --   

b          B.104 utt1:  Yeah. /  

+          A.105 utt1:  -- should go, - /
h          A.105 utt2: {D like, } I don't know,  /
%          A.105 utt3: they could, - /
sv          A.105 utt4: some percentage, {D like }  eighty-five percent of their wages should go toward their room and board --   

b          B.106 utt1:  Yeah,  /
b          B.106 utt2: {D well, }   

+          A.107 utt1:  -- figured on a whatever basis how much it costs to actually support them for a year. /  

+          B.108 utt1:  Uh-huh.  /
%          B.108 utt2:  {D See } now  ((   )) . -/  

sv          A.109 utt1:  {C And } when they get out they should have [ a, + ] {A I don't know, } {D you know, } some reasonable amount of money --   

b          B.110 utt1:  Yeah. /  

+          A.111 utt1:  -- to start, like a couple of thousand dollars,  /
sv          A.111 utt2:  {C but } there should be a limit over which [ they, that + ]  it all goes back to the State.  /
sv           A.111 utt3:  Anything that they've earned while they're in prison should go back to the State except for that, {D you know, } there needs to be some allowance for when someone gets out that they have some money to start with. /  

aa          B.112 utt1:  Yeah,  /
sv          B.112 utt2: {C but } [ at least they would, + at least ]  that way they would be helping pay for their own. /  

aa          A.113 utt1:  Exactly,  /
aa          A.113 utt2: absolutely. /  

sd          B.114 utt1:  [ {C And } something else that I would, +   

sv          A.115 utt1:  That's the part that I really think we need to change. /  

+          B.116 utt1:  {C And } something else that I would ] like to see  [ is, + is, ] {F uh, } victim reimbursement, {D you know, } because they, {D you know, } like  you say these guys are in jail  /
sd          B.116 utt2: {C and } they're working,  /
sd          B.116 utt3: they're getting paid,  /
sv          B.116 utt4:  {C but } the guy that they messed over to get there or they stole something from, or beat to death  /
%          B.116 utt5: {C or, } -/  

^2          A.117 utt1:  Has nothing,  /
aa          A.117 utt2: right. /  

sv^m          B.118 utt1:  has nothing,  {D you know. }  /
sv          B.118 utt2:  [ Our, + our ]  victims are victimized, period,  /
sd          B.118 utt3: {C and } the law has [ no, + no, ] {F uh, } regulations to deal with that. /  

aa          A.119 utt1:  Absolutely. /  

sv          B.120 utt1:  [ They, + they ] know how to deal with the penal system  /
sv          B.120 utt2: {C and } they know how to deal with the criminal,  /
sv          B.120 utt3: {C but } they don't know how to deal with the victim because we as citizens, I guess haven't laid anything up there  for them to deal with on that aspect. /  

b          A.121 utt1:  Yeah. /  

%          B.122 utt1:  {C But } it's, - /
%          B.122 utt2: {C but } I sure don't, - /
sd          B.122 utt3: [ I, + I ]  strongly disagree with any judge passing sentence on a person himself. /  

b          A.123 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

%          B.124 utt1:  There that, -/  

sv          A.125 utt1:  I think it works much better [ if it's, + if it's ]  the actual jury. /  

aa          B.126 utt1:  Yeah,  /
sd          B.126 utt2:  {C because, } {D well, } [ th-, + ]  {D see } the jury is dealing with the seriousness of the crime, /  

b          A.127 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

sd          B.128 utt1:  the jury gets to see the whole trial, as does the judge,  /
sv           B.128 utt2:  {C but } {D you know, } [ if, + if ] they figure there's maybe litigating circumstances, or something like that whereas maybe the judge [ does, + just doesn't ]  care, you committed this crime  /
^q          B.128 utt3: {C so } I'm just going to throw the book at you. /  

b          A.129 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

sv          B.130 utt1:  Whereas the jury may have a little, {A shall we say, }  sympathy, {D you know, }  /
^q          B.130 utt2: he did this,  /
^q          B.130 utt3: {C but, } {D you know, } why did he do this, /  

aa          A.131 utt1:  Yeah,  /
sv          A.131 utt2: in some,   

^q          B.132 utt1:  [ is there, + is there ] a basis for it. /  

+         A.133 utt1:  cases [ tha-, + ] it would work that way.  /
sv          A.133 utt2: In some cases it would work the other way. /  

aa          B.134 utt1:  Yeah,  /
sd(^q)      B.134 utt2: in some cases where the judge says okay, I'll give you, {D you know, } two to three years  /
%          B.134 utt3: {C and, } -/  

sv          A.135 utt1:  The jury [ would, + would, ]  slam them  /
sv        A.135 utt2: [ {C and, } +   

b          B.136 utt1:  Yeah. /  

+          A.137 utt1:  {C and } ] I think [  that, + that ] the jury probably  has more of a right to sentence than the judge all the time. /  

sv          B.138 utt1:  {D Well, } they have a stronger debate, too,  because there's twelve people there.  /
sd          B.138 utt2:  They have to decide whether or not he's guilty  /
sd          B.138 utt3: {C and then }  they can sit [ in th-, + ] at the same time and decide what his punishment  would be, /  

b          A.139 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

sd          B.140 utt1:  {C and } you'd have more than one person's input on it. /  

aa          A.141 utt1:  Yeah.  /
sv          A.141 utt2:  I think that's probably a much fairer way. /  

sd(^q)        B.142 utt1:  {C And, } {D you know, } we're supposed to be,  {A and I quote, }  in a democratic society. /  

x          A.143 utt1:  <Laughter>.   

^q          B.144 utt1:  {C So, } {D you know, } if you can find me guilty,  then you ought to be able to pass sentence. /  

b          A.145 utt1:  Yeah.  /  

sv          B.146 utt1:  {C And } a lot of jurors, - /
sd          B.146 utt2: not that I know of, - /
sv(^q)          B.146 utt3:   {C but, }  {D you know, } a lot of jurors may just sit there and say, {D yeah, }  he's guilty,  /
^q          B.146 utt4: {C but } I don't have to deal with it from here, {D you know, }  /
sv          B.146 utt5: {C so } --   

b          A.147 utt1:  Yeah. /  

+          B.148 utt1:  -- the judge takes care of all of that. /  

sv          A.149 utt1:  It might be more, - /
sv          A.149 utt2: it would be more work for the jury,  /
sv          A.149 utt3:  {C but } it would be a more responsible --   

aa          B.150 utt1:  Yeah  /
aa          B.150 utt2: it would, /  

+          A.151 utt1:  -- way to deal with it. /  

aa          B.152 utt1:  yeah,  /
sv          B.152 utt2: serving on the jury [ would be definitely  more respo-, + you'd have to be a definitely more responsible ] person. /  

sd          A.153 utt1:  The thing that [ I, + I ] don't really like, - /
sd          A.153 utt2:  [ I, + I ] don't know, if, {F uh, } a lot of jury selection processes that I've seen have been a, -/ 
