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*x*                                                                     *x*
*x*            Copyright (C) 1995 University of Pennsylvania            *x*
*x*                                                                     *x*
*x*    The data in this file are part of a preliminary version of the   *x*
*x*    Penn Treebank Corpus and should not be redistributed.  Any       *x*
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*x*    that fact, as well as the preliminary nature of the corpus.      *x*
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FILENAME:	2609_1110_1233
TOPIC#:		355
DATE:		910414
TRANSCRIBER:	csw
UTT_CODER:	stm
DIFFICULTY:	1
TOPICALITY:	1
NATURALNESS:	2
ECHO_FROM_B:	1
ECHO_FROM_A:	1
STATIC_ON_A:	1
STATIC_ON_B:	1
BACKGROUND_A:	1
BACKGROUND_B:	1
REMARKS:	Caller A dominated the conversation.

========================================================================
  

%          A.1 utt1:  {D Well, } do you think, {F uh, } - /
%          A.1 utt2: {E I mean } I wonder, - /
sv          A.1 utt3: the assumption is that it is a problem, {F uh, }  /
sd          A.1 utt4: {C and } I've never actually had too many people explain to me why it's a problem, though I have the same instinctual feeling that it's a problem  /
sd          A.1 utt5: [ {C and, } +  {F uh, } {C but } ] it's not clear to me that it is. /  

%          B.2 utt1:  {F Uh, } bo-, -/  

sv          A.3 utt1:  {F Um, } it's a problem if those voting don't represent the population demographically, or in terms of their opinions.  /
sv          A.3 utt2:  {C But } if those who don't vote, if you made them vote - /
sv          A.3 utt3: {C and, } it   those who don't vote would have voted exactly the same way, {D you know, } in other words if forty percent had voted for that person and sixty percent for the other, just like everyone who did vote, it's not clear to me that it is really a problem, {F um. } /  

ba          B.4 utt1:  {F Um, } [ that's, + that's ] interesting,  /
%          B.4 utt2: {C because } I had thought, - /
sd          B.4 utt3: I [ ha-, +  feel ] that it's a problem also,  /
aa          B.4 utt4: {C but, } I see your point on that. /  

%          A.5 utt1:  {E I mean, } [ I, + I  ] assume that those who don't vote, - /
sv          A.5 utt2: {E I mean }  if you look at the break down of those who don't vote, they tend to be, {D you know, } - /
sv          A.5 utt3: poor blacks, for example, vote very little, and things like that  /
sv          A.5 utt4: {C and } I assume that they would vote differently if they were voting, than your average voter.  /
^h         A.5 utt5: {C But } I don't know if that's the case. /  

b          B.6 utt1:  # {F Uh. } # /  

sd          A.7 utt1:  # In # fact I've heard of studies that suggest that that isn't. /  

sv          B.8 utt1:  Apparently they don't think it's a problem <laughter> <breathing>. /  

am          A.9 utt1:  {F Uh, } I guess not,  /
sd          A.9 utt2: [ I'm, +   [ I, + I ] ] vote religiously,  /
sd          A.9 utt3: I really do.   /
sd          A.9 utt4: {F Um, }   [ I guess, + I guess  ] I'm a fan of democracy  /
sd          A.9 utt5: {C and, } {F uh, } <throat_clearing> wish I could vote on more things frankly. /  

aa          B.10 utt1:  That's right, {F um, } /  

sd          A.11 utt1:  {C But } it's funny because here in California things are getting, {F uh, } increasingly democratically oriented, [ in, + in ] the sense of people being able to vote for things.  /
sd          A.11 utt2: {E I mean, } we have these [ initiatives, +  state initiatives ] now. /  

b          B.12 utt1:  # Oh. # /  

sd          A.13 utt1:  # The # first really [ popular, + {D you know } wide spread ] one was, {F uh, } Proposition Thirteen which was a, {F uh, } tax revolt,    

bk          B.14 utt1:  # Right,  /
%          B.14 utt2: I r-, # -/  

+          A.15 utt1:  # against property taxes. #  /
%          A.15 utt2: {F Uh, }  {C and, } {D you know, } now we're, - /
sd          A.15 utt3: {C and } that was whatever, ten years ago  /
sd          A.15 utt4: {C and } now we're up to Proposition a Hundred and fifty or  something like that.  /
%          A.15 utt5:  {E I mean, } we've just, - /
sd          A.15 utt6: there were apparently voters who just threw up their hands after the last voters pamphlet because they were [ asked, + being asked  ] to make decisions on topics that would have three different competing proposals  /
sd          A.15 utt7: {C and } you had to vote for, {D you know, } yes or no on each of them  /
sd          A.15 utt8: {C and } no one could make heads or tails out of some of them  /
sd          A.15 utt9: {C and } it was incredibly complicated and difficult.  /
sd          A.15 utt10: {C And } a lot of people revolted against that,  /
sd(^q)          A.15 utt11: they said we don't want to have to decide all these things, /  

x          B.16 utt1:  # <Laughter>. #   

sv          A.17 utt1:  # {D you # know, } [ [ that's, + that's,  ] + that's  ] why we hire people [ who, + ] {F uh, } {D you know, } [ to, + to ] make these decisions for us. /  

sv          B.18 utt1:  [ I, + I ] kind of feel the opposite, though. /  

b          A.19 utt1:  Yeah. /  

sd          B.20 utt1:  I wish we were given an opportunity to vote on more things. /  

aa          A.21 utt1:  I do t-, -/  

sv          B.22 utt1:  I think our elected officials say they are speaking for us  /
sv          B.22 utt2: {C but } they're not speaking for me. /  

aa          A.23 utt1:  Uh-huh,  /
aa          A.23 utt2: uh-huh.  /
aa          A.23 utt3:  Yeah,  /
sd          A.23 utt4: I wouldn't mind having, {F oh, } more votes than I get to have, frankly <laughter>. /  

aa          B.24 utt1:  # That's true. # /  

sd          A.25 utt1:  # Anyone who # doesn't vote, it's fine with me as long as I can have their vote. /  

x@           B.26 utt1:  # <Laughter>. # *[[slash error]]

sd          A.27 utt1:  # That # would make me happy though.  /
sd          A.27 utt2:  Maybe not [ in a, + in a  ] deep philosophical sense, but in a selfish sense, it probably would.  /
h          A.27 utt3: I don't know,  /
sd          A.27 utt4: it's interesting, {F uh, } some countries voting is obligatory. /  

+@         B.28 utt1:  # {D Well, } # /  *[[slash error]]

sd          A.29 utt1:  # {F Uh, } # it is in Australia, for example. /  

br          B.30 utt1:  Is that true? /  

aa          A.31 utt1:  # Yeah,  /
aa^r          A.31 utt2: yeah. # /  

sd          B.32 utt1:  # I didn't # know that,  /
%          B.32 utt2: I was think-, - /
sv          B.32 utt3: that is one solution to it. /  

sd          A.33 utt1:  # I don't know how I feel about that. # /  

%          B.34 utt1:  # {C But } I don't, - /
sv          B.34 utt2: that's not really democratic.   Not # what I'd consider truly democratic. /  

sd          A.35 utt1:  {D Well } Australia considers itself every bit as much a democracy as the United States. /  

%          B.36 utt1:  # As, - /
b          B.36 utt2: uh-huh. # /  

h          A.37 utt1:  # {C And } it's # not for me to say that they're not. /  

b          B.38 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

%          A.39 utt1:  {F Um, } [ they, + they  ] feel, - /
sd          A.39 utt2: {E I mean } here you have the right to vote  /
sd          A.39 utt3: {C and } they simply define it as a duty there.   /
sd          A.39 utt4: {D You know, }  [ we have, +   just as we have ] [ a r-, + a duty ] to pay taxes, {D you know, }  /
qh          A.39 utt5: is that democratic?  /
sd          A.39 utt6: {E I mean, } we don't have the right to pay taxes in this country,  /
sd          A.39 utt7: we have the duty to pay taxes. /  

aa          B.40 utt1:  # It's a duty, right. # /  

sd          A.41 utt1:  # {C And } in that country # it's a duty to pay taxes  /
sd          A.41 utt2: {C and } it's a duty to vote on how those taxes are spent.  /
sv          A.41 utt3:  {C And } it's not clear to me that, that's so much less democratic.   /
h          A.41 utt4: {F Um. }    

b          B.42 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

+          A.43 utt1:  I don't know,  /
sd          A.43 utt2: {C but } part of me rebels against that, /  

qy^g          B.44 utt1:  # [ [ [ I, +   it's, ] +  that's, # ] +      

sd          A.45 utt1:  # {C but then } I'm # an American. /  

+          B.46 utt1:  it's ] complex question when you start thinking about it, isn't it <laughter>. /  

ny          A.47 utt1:  Yeah.  /
sd          A.47 utt2:  {C And } some people don't vote,  /
%          A.47 utt3: {E I mean } there is - /
sd          A.47 utt4: like three or four percent of Australians don't vote  /
sd          A.47 utt5: {C and } I think they're [ el-, + eligible ] for a fine.  /
h          A.47 utt6: I don't know if they actually are fined [ or, + or ] what happens,  /
sd          A.47 utt7: {C but } you're eligible for some sort of fine if you don't vote. /  

b          B.48 utt1:  Uh-huh.  /
ba          B.48 utt2:  That's interesting.  /
sd          B.48 utt3: I have people here that I know that have never registered to vote. /  

b          A.49 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

sv          B.50 utt1:  {C And } [ I think, + <<pause>> I think  ] they feel they can criticize if they don't <laughter>. /  

b          A.51 utt1:  # Yeah,  /
%          A.51 utt2: I was sort of, s-, # -/  

sd          B.52 utt1:  # I told them if they don't # vote they don't have the right to criticize. /  

%          A.53 utt1:  {D Well } I, - /
sd          A.53 utt2: that's how I feel.  /
sv          A.53 utt3:  {E I mean, } [ if yo-, + if you  ] vote and your guy looses   {D well } [ you leas-, + you least ] tried  /
sv          A.53 utt4: {C and } you can say something  /
sv          A.53 utt5: {C but } if you don't  vote, [ I sort of feel like, +  part of me, {A and it's kind of a nasty part of me }  feels like, ] {D well } if you didn't vote, you get what's coming to you, {D you know. } /  

aa          B.54 utt1:  # That's right,  /
%          B.54 utt2: I feel th-, # -/  

sv          A.55 utt1:  # {C And } certainly that's true in # the overall,  /
sv          A.55 utt2: {E I mean } no one individual that's true for but for the population as a whole,  /
sv          A.55 utt3: I sort of feel that way.  [ When they +  especially when [ someone, + [ they, + <throat_clearing>, they ] ] ] don't vote for someone   because they don't like any of them  and then the person gets in and  they don't like him  and he turns out to have been worse than her that they might have voted for, or something like that.  /  *[[listen: two utts?]]
sv          A.55 utt4:  {C And, } {D you know, } I say  {D well, } {D you know, } voting for the lesser of two evils is still important. /  

aa          B.56 utt1:  I think it is too.  /
sv          B.56 utt2:  Sometimes it is a difficult choice.  /
sv          B.56 utt3:  You don't feel as though you have much of a choice,  /
%          B.56 utt4: {C but } <laughter>. -/  

b          A.57 utt1:  Yeah,  /
b^r          A.57 utt2: yeah,  /
sv          A.57 utt3: {E I mean, } [ [ you, +  {E I mean, }  it's, ] +  it's ] funny because technically you do.  /
sd          A.57 utt4: {E I mean } you have the right to do a write in candidate.  /
sv          A.57 utt5:  {C But } of course [ that's, + that's  ] not really a vote.   /
%          A.57 utt6: {F Um. } /  

sv          B.58 utt1:  It doesn't really gain anything. /  

aa          A.59 utt1:  Yes,  /
aa          A.59 utt2: it [ rea-, + really  ] doesn't,  /
sv          A.59 utt3: {C and so } [ it's, + it's  ] a complicated situation,  /
%          A.59 utt4: {C but } I would like to see, - /
h          A.59 utt5: I don't know,  /
sd          A.59 utt6: [ [ [ I, + I, ] + I'm, ] + I'm ] thinking  of actually moving to Australia  /
sd          A.59 utt7: [ {C and, } +      

%          B.60 utt1:  # Is that goin-, # -/  

+          A.61 utt1:  # {C and } ] [ perha-, + perhaps  ] # I'll call you back and let you know [ what, + how ] the Australian system works. /  

x          B.62 utt1:  # <Laughter>. #   

sd          A.63 utt1:  # {E I # mean, } [ not because of the vo-, + {E I mean } I'm not thinking of moving there because of the voting,    

%          B.64 utt1:  # Not be-, # -/  

+          A.65 utt1:  # but just # because of a job opportunity. /  

bk          B.66 utt1:  {F Oh, } I see. /  

%          A.67 utt1:  {C And, } {F uh, } I, -/  

qy          B.68 utt1:  [ I'm inte-, + are you a T I employee, I'm interested.  ] /  

nn          A.69 utt1:  # No,  /
sd^e          A.69 utt2: I'm not. # /  

b^m          B.70 utt1:  # Not,  /
bk          B.70 utt2: okay,  /
h          B.70 utt3: I # just wondered. /  

sd          A.71 utt1:  [ {C And, } +  {F uh, } {C so } ] [ I'm, + I'm  ] really [ quite, + quite  ] curious, how that would work, to have both, {E I mean, } {D you know, }  /
%          A.71 utt2: {C and } I believe [ in the, + in a ] certain, {F uh, } - /
sv          A.71 utt3: Soviet bloc countries you [ are, + are ] obliged to vote too.  /
sv          A.71 utt4: In fact, it was even pretty much spelled out who you did vote for, up until fairly recently  /
sd          A.71 utt5: {C and, } that's what I think of when I think of you're obliged to vote.  /
sv          A.71 utt6:  {C But } when you actually, really are given as much choice as you are in this country, with its two party system, {F um, }  /
h          A.71 utt7: I don't know,  /
%          A.71 utt8: I kind of, - /
sd          A.71 utt9: part of me is wary  /
sd          A.71 utt10: {C and } part of me likes the idea of having it be more of a duty, {F um. } /  

sv          B.72 utt1:  {D Well, } {F uh, } maybe they should, - /
sv          B.72 utt2: perhaps that would be a solution if they were required to vote at least for their first three or four years after they become of voting age.    

b          A.73 utt1:  # Uh-huh,  /
b^r          A.73 utt2: uh-huh,  /
b^r          A.73 utt3: uh-huh. # /  

+          B.74 utt1:  # Required to register # and vote for four years,  /
sv          B.74 utt2: {C and } perhaps they would be indoctrinated that this is their duty. /  

b          A.75 utt1:  Uh-huh,  /
b          A.75 utt2: uh-huh.  /
ba          A.75 utt3:  {D Well } that's a thought,  /
sv          A.75 utt4: {C or } certain privileges come from voting which aren't that important but are nice to have,  /
h          A.75 utt5: I don't know.  /
%          A.75 utt6: The right to write your, -/  

sv          B.76 utt1:  Maybe it should go with a drivers license <laughter>. /  

aa          A.77 utt1:  Yeah,  /
sv          A.77 utt2: [ that's, + {D see } that's ] an example of a right, [ not a, + not a, ] - /
nd          A.77 utt3: actually - /
sv          A.77 utt4: that's considered a privilege, not a right. /  

sv          B.78 utt1:  # That is a privilege,  /
aa          B.78 utt2: right,  /
%          B.78 utt3: tha-, # -/  

b          A.79 utt1:  # Yeah,  /
%          A.79 utt2: {C but } technically [ people, + most people, ] # - /
sd          A.79 utt3: technically it's a privilege,  /
sd          A.79 utt4: {C but } most people think of it as a right.  /
sd          A.79 utt5:  {E I mean, } in other words if the government [ denies you driving, + denies you a drivers license, ] people get very upset.  /
sv          A.79 utt6: {C But } actually it's a privilege,    

aa          B.80 utt1:  # It is. # /  

+          A.81 utt1:  # which is # allowed to be revoked. /  

aa          B.82 utt1:  That's correct. /  

sv          A.83 utt1:  {C And, } fortunately voting isn't that. /  

sv          B.84 utt1:  [ Maybe it should, + maybe it should ] be. /  

sd          A.85 utt1:  [ Except, + {D well } except ] if you're a felon,  /
sd          A.85 utt2: if you're a felon it is taken away from you. /  

b          B.86 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

sd          A.87 utt1:  {E I mean, }  ((   ))  they will take away your right to vote, under certain circumstances. /  

aa          B.88 utt1:  That's right. /  

^h          A.89 utt1:  {F Um, } {C so, } gosh,  /
sv^t          A.89 utt2: {C so } we don't have a great solution yet do we <laughter>, /  

b^m          B.90 utt1: Don't have a great - /
sd^t          B.90 utt2: [ I, + <laughter>  I  ] think I checked that as a question I'd be willing to discuss too <laughter>.  /
%          B.90 utt3: Oh. /  

qy^d          A.91 utt1:  <Laughter>  {C But } [ [ [ I, + I ] also, + I also, ] +  I ] don't know if you've, {F uh, } read any of [ [ the, +  [ {F + ] um, } {F oh, } what do they call those. The, ] +  {F uh, } the ] early  [ republican, + {F uh, } republic ] documents, {F uh, } when they were arguing through constitutional law written by Hamilton and all those people. /  

nn          B.92 utt1:  No,  /
nn^r          B.92 utt2: no,  /
sd^e          B.92 utt3: I haven't. /  

sd          A.93 utt1:  {F Um, } {F oh, } [ Hamilt-, + I think it was Hamilton ] who wrote number ten or something, where he was arguing for a republican, not in the sense of the Republican party now,   

b          B.94 utt1:  # Right. # /  

+          A.95 utt1:  # versus # a democratic, {F uh, } government and, arguing successfully, why, the United States should be a republic, not a democracy.   Which indeed it really is, a republic, not a democracy.   /
sd          A.95 utt2: Where he defines [ dep-, + democracy  ] as everyone votes for the issues and republic is people who vote for someone who then in turn votes for the issues.  /
sd          A.95 utt3: In other words, you vote for representatives. /  

b          B.96 utt1:  Uh-huh. /  

sd          A.97 utt1:  {C And } the whole idea was, {F um, } presumably those who get voted in would be wiser than the average person, [ and, + and,  ] a specialist and able to make more informed decisions and can protect against the tyranny of democracy, /  

b@         B.98 utt1:  <Laughter>.   *[[slash error]]

sd          A.99 utt1:  {C Because } just as you can have a tyranny of a single, {F um, } {D you know, } bad ruler or something, you can have a tyranny of the majority. /  

+@         B.100 utt1:  Uh-huh. /   *[[slash error]]

sd          A.101 utt1:  {C And, } {F uh, } he makes a very, {F uh, } passionate, good argument for why you don't want some things decided by democratic process,  /
sd          A.101 utt2: {C because } anytime you have a majority, {F um, } they can change the law in [ a democ-, + a fully democratic ] process  /
sd          A.101 utt3: {C and } there are cases when you don't want that to be the case.  {F Um, }  /
%          A.101 utt4: <throat_clearing> {F oh, } {D you know, } a candi-, - /
sd          A.101 utt5: if there's some minority that people don't like because of, {D you know, } racial hatred or something like that, the majority can just simply [ vote again-, + vote against ] them. /  

b          B.102 utt1:  # Right. # /  

sd          A.103 utt1:  # {C And } # cases like that, he argues, need to be constrained,  /
sd          A.103 utt2: [ {C and, } +  {C and } ] actually  I agree, except that I don't trust the people who are appointed to vote <laughter>. /  

sv          B.104 utt1:  <Laughter>  Sometimes I think we have that right now, with Congress. /  

aa          A.105 utt1:  Yeah,  /
sd          A.105 utt2: {D well, } {E [ I, +  I ] mean, } [ I feel that, + I feel that  ] wa-, -/  

sv          B.106 utt1:  I think they're looking after their own self preservation more than they're actually looking after the good of the country. /  

b          A.107 utt1:  Yeah,  /
sv          A.107 utt2: {D well } their job is to be reelected, by in large,  /
sv          A.107 utt3: {C and, so } they work on that job.  /
sv          A.107 utt4:  {C And } there's also an antigovernment mood in the country, {D you know, }  where government is misspending your dollars  /
sv          A.107 utt5: [ {C and, } +  {C and } ] they're all  fools,  /
sv          A.107 utt6: {C and } {D you know, } [ throw, + throw  ] the bastards out,  /
sv          A.107 utt7: that kind of thing. /  

b          B.108 utt1:  Right. /  

sv          A.109 utt1:  {C And, } there's a notion that somehow, if someone isn't as much as a government person, they're less corrupt and they're more likely to be good which is really strange,  /
sv          A.109 utt2: {C because, } {E I mean, } if I'm hiring a plumber, I want a real plumber,  /
%          A.109 utt3: I want someone trained in, -/ 
