At least as far as Canada is concerned, the term engineer (in any
form) is restricted to those with PEng (equivalent to PE).  A
graduate of an engineering school is not an engineer until the PEng
is obtained. The Association of Professional Engineers of Ontario
is engaged in a legal tussle over the term "software engineering" at
the moment and has a committee investigating bioengineering
(including rehabilitation engineering).  Attempts to get around the
restrictions on the use of the term "engineer" at least up here are a
waste of time.
-Geoff


From:            robinson@coes.latech.edu
Send reply to:   RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
To:              RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
Date sent:       Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:12:09 -0500
Subject:         Re: [RESNAre-psg] Credentialling info/history

> I'd like to think you are right on the interpretation of what "OR"
> implies.
> That would count me in as a "Mechanical Engineer" or "Rehabilation
> Engineer".
>  (But, I doubt the state of California would go for that.)  However, I
> can
> see how a strict reading -- though maybe far fetched - allows for
> another
> interpretation.
>
>
> If I remember correctly Dwight...you DO have a mechanical engineering
> degree.  So..according to this definition you can call yourself an
> "engineer."  Keep in mind...I am NOT saying you can PRACTICE as an
> engineer without a license...but there is nothing to keep you from
> calling yourself an "engineer"....just as there is nothing from IBM
> calling the people who work for them "engineers"....which is pretty much
> where the IEEE thing is coming from.  If you read that page from
> IEEE...it is clear they are talking about the PE reserving the title of
> "licensed" or "registered" engineers.  While they do make the point that
> there are states that put restrictions on the term "engineer" they still
> use the "OR" word to define what THEY mean by engineer.  If Charlie was
> posting that to the listserve to make the argument that RESNA should
> require the PE he found the wrong argument...because IEEE pretty clearly
> says ABET "OR" PE.
>
>
>
>
> I did not imply anything about my views  by my posting the IEEE info to
> the listserv. It was an FYI. And it did stimulate discussion.
>
>
> It points out the issue that we have raised in the PSG meeting. Why is
> RESNA going at this alone if their might be another way to get the
> necessary "credential?" IEEE cannot do it, but another organization was
> mentioned.
>
>
> Look, I have a PE. It took me three entire months of evenings to study
> for it. I had to sit for the EIT on Saturday in 1974 (not being from an
> ABET-Accredited school), took the PE exam on Sunday the next day, and
> the ethics test, Sunday evening. It could have been brutal, but if one
> carefully looked through the PE part of the test, there were generally 5
> or so problems that I could handle, with only three needed.  All I can
> say is that I passed. It could have been luck or it could have been
> intestinal fortitude. The tests are different now, so I don't know how
> you as practicing rehab engineers would do on it now.
>
>
> Now, do all of you need the PE? We have been over this ground many
> times. We need to distinguish ourselves from other service providers.
> The title "rehab engineer" does that. But it brings regulatory baggage
> unless one has a PE, especially if you deal with the public. And a great
> issue is that of liability if you don't have a credential that a given
> state or province recognizes, and if you happen to screw up along the
> line.
>
>
> I have no answers as to the credentialling issue, but I do wish that we
> can resolve this whole issue and move forward.
>
>
> -Charlie R.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>




Geoff Fernie PhD PEng
Professor and Director
Centre for Studies in Aging
Sunnybrook & Women's
2075 Bayview Avenue
Toronto, ON, Canada M4N 3M5

phone: (416) 480-5858
fax: (416) 480-5856
email: geoff.fernie@swchsc.on.ca

craigtwadsworth@cs.com wrote:

I'd like to resolve this and move forward, too.  Is there another
organization that we could collaborate with to create and obtain the
rehabilitation engineer (CRE?) credential?

Am I reading this right?  Are we up to looking for some OTHER organization besides RESNA to certify rehab engineers??

If so...I'd really like to hear SOMETHING from RESNA's leadership about what's going on, where we stand, where we're going and when we might get there.

And in the spirit of moving this discussion along....It seems to me one place to start looking for other organizations is the Biomedical Engineering organizations that certify Biomedical Engineers and Technicians.

Jerry

This could be a possibility...it's pretty close now...

http://accenet.org/certification/cecert2.html

> This could be a possibility...it's pretty close now...
>
> http://accenet.org/certification/cecert2.html
>

No one has ever been able to explain to me why these people can offer a
credential as a..

"Certified Clinical Engineer"

with the requirements they have (which, btw, are very similar to those
originally developed by the ad hoc committee...and the ones RESNA's insurance
company supposedly would not accept) and RESNA can offer to credential
someone as a...

"Certified Rehab Engineer"

Anyone wanna take a shot at explaining it??

Jerry

Jerry,
Joe Dyro was very much involved in setting up the CCE. Maybe we could get him
involved in the loop. Certainly rehab engineers are very much clinical
engineers, it's just that there scope of clinical practice differs.

Note that their is a very strong industrial (and federal government) employment
exemption on the use of the word "engineer." If a CCE was working in a hospital
that had a chief engineer who was registered, then conceivably that CCE could
still be called an engineer, since this falls under the industrial exemption.
It's the same for most big companies and even for Universities, where in the
past only the Dean of a School of Engineering had to be registered (might be
changed now). All faculty could then use the title "engineer." But if they did
any consulting as an "engineer" where public health or safety was involved, then
registration would have been required.

-Charlie R.

Ps Joe, Any insights?


> > This could be a possibility...it's pretty close now...
>>
>> http://accenet.org/certification/cecert2.html
>>
>
>No one has ever been able to explain to me why these people can offer a
>credential as a..
>
>"Certified Clinical Engineer"
>
>with the requirements they have (which, btw, are very similar to those
>originally developed by the ad hoc committee...and the ones RESNA's insurance
>company supposedly would not accept) and RESNA can offer to credential
>someone as a...
>
>"Certified Rehab Engineer"
>
>Anyone wanna take a shot at explaining it??
>
>Jerry
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I apologize for disseminating this today, versus Friday when I received it.  I
underestimated the amount of weekend discussion that would arise surrounding
this topic.


Based on discussions at this year's annual meeting during the RE-PSG meetings,
with input from other members through the listserve, and with input from the
CESB, the Ad Hoc Committee on RE/RET credentialling made a recommendation to the
RESNA Board:  one credential, "Rehabilitation Engineering Technologist", be
offered to qualified members.

The structure of this credential is to be designed to follow the guidelines from
Council of Engineering and Scientific Specialty Boards (CESB) for a "Engineering
Related Specialty Certification Programs."

Specifically under the General Guidelines, Section 9 * Titles:
"The modifications "engineering technology", "engineering technologist" are
acceptable terms which may be used by Engineering Related Specialty
Certification Boards."

In the Supplemental Guidelines for Engineering Related Specialty Certification
Programs, the guidelines include a specification that the candidates for the
certification must:
		 · hold a baccalureate degree in a field related to engineering (or
equivalent)***
· possess a minimum of 4 years of practical experience in responsible charge of
work in the specialty area.

(Note:  At the discretion of the PSB, alternate eligibility requirements can be
established for a limited period of time to accommodate individuals with
extensive experience, who do not meet the above mentioned educational
requirement).

An eligible candidate will need to successfully complete a written examination
(anticipated to be 50 questions).  Successful completion of the ATP examination,
combined with successful completion of the RET examination will result in the
candidate earning the privilege to use of the title * Rehabilitation Engineering
Technologist (RET).
********************************************************************
As you recall, the pursuit of the Certified Rehabilitation Engineer credential
came to a screeching halt when RESNA's insurance was threatened with being
withdrawn should RESNA offer this certification.  This, in turn, was based on
the threat of legal action against RESNA should they offer the engineer
credential.  In an attempt to offer a credential which would recognize technical
training, knowledge, and skill in this field, but would not jeapordize the
organization, the RET was developed as outlined above.

To proceed, we must identify, if appropriate, "engineer-related" educational
programs which should be included.  The suggestion is that they may be technical
degrees which while not strictly engineering degrees, may be related to the
field of engineering and provide training in problem-solving, and have their
roots in mathematics and basic sciences (see Criteria for Accrediting
Engineering-Related Programs at www.abet.org).  My personal take is that, as our
interest is in an engineering credential of some sort, whatever form that takes,
that we limit "engineering-related" programs to those accredited by ABET as
such, if not limit it to only ABET accredited engineering programs. 
Grandfathering will accommodate those who currently practice with a high level
of competence, but who don't have an appropriate degree.  But if we want to
foster the pursuit of engineering training as an important element in the
development of those for whom this credential is offered,  I think we start by
limiting options for educational background.  On the practical side, I don't
want to try to identify every program that can be defined as
"engineering-related".

Please offer your feedback.  Let's move forward.


Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

Two of my brothers and I are licensed professional engineers.  Two of us
graduated with engineering degrees, took the E.I.T. and P.E. exams.  The
third started working for an engineering consulting firm as a draftsman and
was encouraged to start studying on his own.  He took the E.I.T. exam,
passed it, and after getting at least 10 years engineering experience in
the field, took and passed the PE exam.  So basically we all got our P.E.
Licenses the same way.  Two of us had formal educations and one had an
informal education.  All of us passed the same E.I.T. exam and then a state
engineering exam.  This was some 25 years ago.

                          Lou Heacock, P.E.





dojvivco@aol.com on 08/03/2001 03:46:04 PM

Please respond to RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com

To:   RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
cc:    (bcc: Louis Heacock/National/NISH)
Subject:  Re: [RESNAre-psg] Credentialling info/history




Jerry,

I'd like to think you are right on the interpretation of what "OR" implies.
That would count me in as a "Mechanical Engineer" or "Rehabilation
Engineer".
  (But, I doubt the state of California would go for that.)  However, I can
see how a strict reading -- though maybe far fetched - allows for another
interpretation.

That is, a person could qualify without an ABET/EAC accredited (or
equivalent) degree, and/or field experience, as long as they had become
licensed as a PE.  I realize this seems remote, but there may be some
licensing processes, or conditions, out there that we are not aware of.
The
"OR" may be IEEE's attempt to be unduly exclusionary.

Hopefully you, or someone else, can give a convincing argument that I am
wrong.

Dwight Johnson

In a message dated 8/3/01 6:37:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu writes:


> Subj:Re: [RESNAre-psg] Credentialling info/history
> Date:8/3/01 6:37:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> From:    jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu (Jerry Weisman)
> Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
">RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com</A>
> To:    RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>   "robinson@coes.latech.edu" wrote:
> >>      The IEEE-USA Board of Directors has released a new position
>> statement
>> on "Use of the Title 'Engineer.'"
>>       Read the statement at "
>> <A HREF="http://www.ieeeusa.org/forum/POSITIONS/titleengineer.html
">http://www.ieeeusa.org/forum/POSITIONS/titleengineer.html</A>".
>>
> This statement...
> "Graduation with an Engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited
program
> of engineering (or equivalent*), coupled with sufficient experience in
the
> field in which the term, Engineer, is used; and/OR
> Licensure by any jurisdiction as a Professional Engineer."
> ...is consistent with the requirements for the CRE/RET as developed by
the
> ad hoc committee last year.  The requirement as developed stated an ABET
> degree.  Please notice the useage of the word "OR" in this statement.
They
> are NOT saying you have to have a PE in order to be called an engineer.
> So??...What IS happening these days with this certification???
> Jerry
>

Greg...

What's the timeline for this?

Jerry

Greg McGrew wrote:

> I apologize for disseminating this today, versus Friday when I received it.  I
underestimated the amount of weekend discussion that would arise surrounding
this topic.
>
> Based on discussions at this year's annual meeting during the RE-PSG meetings,
with input from other members through the listserve, and with input from the
CESB, the Ad Hoc Committee on RE/RET credentialling made a recommendation to the
RESNA Board:  one credential, "Rehabilitation Engineering Technologist", be
offered to qualified members.
>
> The structure of this credential is to be designed to follow the guidelines
from Council of Engineering and Scientific Specialty Boards (CESB) for a
"Engineering Related Specialty Certification Programs."
>
> Specifically under the General Guidelines, Section 9 * Titles:
> "The modifications "engineering technology", "engineering technologist" are
acceptable terms which may be used by Engineering Related Specialty
Certification Boards."
>
> In the Supplemental Guidelines for Engineering Related Specialty Certification
Programs, the guidelines include a specification that the candidates for the
certification must:
>                 ·       hold a baccalureate degree in a field related to
engineering (or equivalent)***
> ·       possess a minimum of 4 years of practical experience in responsible
charge of work in the specialty area.
>
> (Note:  At the discretion of the PSB, alternate eligibility requirements can
be established for a limited period of time to accommodate individuals with
extensive experience, who do not meet the above mentioned educational
requirement).
>
> An eligible candidate will need to successfully complete a written examination
(anticipated to be 50 questions).  Successful completion of the ATP examination,
combined with successful completion of the RET examination will result in the
candidate earning the privilege to use of the title * Rehabilitation Engineering
Technologist (RET).
> ********************************************************************
> As you recall, the pursuit of the Certified Rehabilitation Engineer credential
came to a screeching halt when RESNA's insurance was threatened with being
withdrawn should RESNA offer this certification.  This, in turn, was based on
the threat of legal action against RESNA should they offer the engineer
credential.  In an attempt to offer a credential which would recognize technical
training, knowledge, and skill in this field, but would not jeapordize the
organization, the RET was developed as outlined above.
>
> To proceed, we must identify, if appropriate, "engineer-related" educational
programs which should be included.  The suggestion is that they may be technical
degrees which while not strictly engineering degrees, may be related to the
field of engineering and provide training in problem-solving, and have their
roots in mathematics and basic sciences (see Criteria for Accrediting
Engineering-Related Programs at www.abet.org).  My personal take is that, as our
interest is in an engineering credential of some sort, whatever form that takes,
that we limit "engineering-related" programs to those accredited by ABET as
such, if not limit it to only ABET accredited engineering programs. 
Grandfathering will accommodate those who currently practice with a high level
of competence, but who don't have an appropriate degree.  But if we want to
foster the pursuit of engineering training as an important element in the
development of those for whom this credential is offered,  I think we start by
> limiting options for educational background.  On the practical side, I don't
want to try to identify every program that can be defined as
"engineering-related".
>
> Please offer your feedback.  Let's move forward.
>
> Gregory W. McGrew
> Center for Rehabilitation Technology
> Helen Hayes Hospital
> 845-786-4587
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
********************************************************************
  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman
  Rehabilitation Technology Services

     |Fax:   802-728-1520 or 728-1390
  Vemont Technical College                |Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
  Randolph Center, Vermont 05061    |URL:   www.vtc.vsc.edu/rehab/
********************************************************************

The timeline is based on the next scheduled event at which the test could be
offered.  The Board was originally hoping that a credential could be chosen, and
test administered at MedTrade (OCT).  The credentialling committee felt that was
pushing it, but that the next major event, the Seating Symposium (FEB?, MAR?)
would be a quite reasonable target, if not something sooner at a smaller venue.

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

Greg McGrew wrote:

> The timeline is based on the next scheduled event at which the test could be
offered.  The Board was originally hoping that a credential could be chosen, and
test administered at MedTrade (OCT).  The credentialling committee felt that was
pushing it,

Why is it "pushing it"?  Isn't the test ready?  What else has to happen?

Jerry,
There are a few time issues associated with preparing the RET exam from the
current set of exam questions and marketing the exam (I have inquired as to what
those are), as well as establishing the criteria for engineering-related degrees
acceptible as the educational component of eligibility.

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

>>> Jerry Weisman <jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu> 08/06 1:05 PM >>>


Greg McGrew wrote:

> The timeline is based on the next scheduled event at which the test could be
offered.  The Board was originally hoping that a credential could be chosen, and
test administered at MedTrade (OCT).  The credentialling committee felt that was
pushing it,

Why is it "pushing it"?  Isn't the test ready?  What else has to happen?



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RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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Is the guy who operates a choo-choo train allowed to call himself an "engineer?"
:)

Gary


Gary M. McFadyen, Ph.D., ATP
Senior Rehabilitation Engineer
T. K. Martin Center for Technology and Disability
P. O. Box 9736
Mississippi State, MS 39762

Fellow Technical People in Rehab:

In order to offer the RET credential, one needs to specify the full compliment
of eligibility requirements for those taking the exam.  This includes their
educational background.  When looking at the CRE, it was simple - a bachelor
degree from an ABET accredited engineering program would be required, with the
understanding that for a limited period of time, grandfathering of some without
this background could occur.
Now we're dealing with a credential whose educational constraints could be open
to include "engineering-related" degree programs, per the constructs outlined by
the CESB for "engineering technologist" .

I ask for your response to the following:

Assumming that a technical degree should be required of candidates for the RET,
what degrees should be included?


RELATED INFO:
ABET also offers accreditation to programs they refer to as
"engineering-related".  Such programs are required to have their "roots in
mathematics and basic sciences, but to carry knowledge further toward creative
application".  They refer to those programs that apply the knowledge of how
things work (math and science) to innovative application to the "needs and
problems of society...to achieve viable solutions"  (problem-solving).

(Check out "2001-2002 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering-Related Programs" at
www.abet.org)

The criteria they outline appear to constitute a good technical foundation to
build upon for the pursuit of practice in our field.

PERSONAL OPINION -
ABET has done a nice job of meeting our criteria for engineering-related
programs, that of training in the application of mathematical and scientific
knowledge through an organized, systematic problem-solving process.  I, for one,
don't feel qualified or capable of specifying each and every non-engineering
degree program which ought to be included as eligible.

We're helping define a path for future practitioners to pursue towards the
credential.  As one with an engineering education, I'd like that credential to
reflect an educational background that includes the technical problem-solving
elements as defined by an acknowledged technical accreditation body (ABET). 
Those currently deserving a shot at the RET because of experience-based skill
and ability who lack a required degree will be offered the shot through
grandfathering.

I suggest eligibility for the RET include a bachelor degree from an ABET
accredited engineering or engineering-related program.

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

I thoroughly agree with Greg.  ABET should be used to determine both engineering
and engineering-related eligibility for the RET exam.

Scott Draper, MSBE, ATP
Iowa Methodist Medical Center
Des Moines, IA  50309
drapersa@ihs.org


>>> mcgrewg@helenhayeshosp.org 08/21/01 03:28PM >>>
Fellow Technical People in Rehab:

In order to offer the RET credential, one needs to specify the full compliment
of eligibility requirements for those taking the exam.  This includes their
educational background.  When looking at the CRE, it was simple - a bachelor
degree from an ABET accredited engineering program would be required, with the
understanding that for a limited period of time, grandfathering of some without
this background could occur.
Now we're dealing with a credential whose educational constraints could be open
to include "engineering-related" degree programs, per the constructs outlined by
the CESB for "engineering technologist" .

I ask for your response to the following:

Assumming that a technical degree should be required of candidates for the RET,
what degrees should be included?


RELATED INFO:
ABET also offers accreditation to programs they refer to as
"engineering-related".  Such programs are required to have their "roots in
mathematics and basic sciences, but to carry knowledge further toward creative
application".  They refer to those programs that apply the knowledge of how
things work (math and science) to innovative application to the "needs and
problems of society...to achieve viable solutions"  (problem-solving).

(Check out "2001-2002 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering-Related Programs" at
www.abet.org)

The criteria they outline appear to constitute a good technical foundation to
build upon for the pursuit of practice in our field.

PERSONAL OPINION -
ABET has done a nice job of meeting our criteria for engineering-related
programs, that of training in the application of mathematical and scientific
knowledge through an organized, systematic problem-solving process.  I, for one,
don't feel qualified or capable of specifying each and every non-engineering
degree program which ought to be included as eligible.

We're helping define a path for future practitioners to pursue towards the
credential.  As one with an engineering education, I'd like that credential to
reflect an educational background that includes the technical problem-solving
elements as defined by an acknowledged technical accreditation body (ABET). 
Those currently deserving a shot at the RET because of experience-based skill
and ability who lack a required degree will be offered the shot through
grandfathering.

I suggest eligibility for the RET include a bachelor degree from an ABET
accredited engineering or engineering-related program.

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587


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Greg...

Would you please look at the requirements we established for the original RET
certification.  I'm not sure it would be appropriate for this new
certification...but I'd like to see an Associates Degree specifically IN Rehab
Engineering Technology be considered as making someone eligible to sit for the
exam.

Also...would you please give us an update on what's happening and a timeline.

Thanks!!

Jerry

Greg McGrew wrote:

> Fellow Technical People in Rehab:
>
> In order to offer the RET credential, one needs to specify the full compliment
of eligibility requirements for those taking the exam.  This includes their
educational background.  When looking at the CRE, it was simple - a bachelor
degree from an ABET accredited engineering program would be required, with the
understanding that for a limited period of time, grandfathering of some without
this background could occur.
> Now we're dealing with a credential whose educational constraints could be
open to include "engineering-related" degree programs, per the constructs
outlined by the CESB for "engineering technologist" .
>
> I ask for your response to the following:
>
> Assumming that a technical degree should be required of candidates for the
RET, what degrees should be included?
>
> RELATED INFO:
> ABET also offers accreditation to programs they refer to as
"engineering-related".  Such programs are required to have their "roots in
mathematics and basic sciences, but to carry knowledge further toward creative
application".  They refer to those programs that apply the knowledge of how
things work (math and science) to innovative application to the "needs and
problems of society...to achieve viable solutions"  (problem-solving).
>
> (Check out "2001-2002 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering-Related Programs"
at www.abet.org)
>
> The criteria they outline appear to constitute a good technical foundation to
build upon for the pursuit of practice in our field.
>
> PERSONAL OPINION -
> ABET has done a nice job of meeting our criteria for engineering-related
programs, that of training in the application of mathematical and scientific
knowledge through an organized, systematic problem-solving process.  I, for one,
don't feel qualified or capable of specifying each and every non-engineering
degree program which ought to be included as eligible.
>
> We're helping define a path for future practitioners to pursue towards the
credential.  As one with an engineering education, I'd like that credential to
reflect an educational background that includes the technical problem-solving
elements as defined by an acknowledged technical accreditation body (ABET). 
Those currently deserving a shot at the RET because of experience-based skill
and ability who lack a required degree will be offered the shot through
grandfathering.
>
> I suggest eligibility for the RET include a bachelor degree from an ABET
accredited engineering or engineering-related program.
>
> Gregory W. McGrew
> Center for Rehabilitation Technology
> Helen Hayes Hospital
> 845-786-4587
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
********************************************************************
  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                 Tel: 802-863-3222
  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
  35 Western Ave                         Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
  Burlington, VT 05401                   URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************

Jerry,
I asked Jean layout the process to the first exam.  Her response follows. 
Regarding the inclusion of assoc. degree in rehab engineering tech., I'll look
at what was set up for the original RET.  I should probably know, but are there
any existing assoc. programs for rehab engineering technology?  ...if so, are
they ABET accredited under ABET's provision for such programs?

>Greg,

I spoke with the test developers and they feel as sson as we have the
Candidate's Information Bulletin completed they can have the RE test ready
administration.

We need the degree information for the CIB and will want to distrubute the
applications - far and wide.  We are aiming for a first adminstration to be
CSUN - March , 2002; as the next largest gathering of potential candidates
following the Oct. Medtrade meeting.

Let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks for the great work on identifying degrees.
Jeannie<


>>> Jerry Weisman <jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu> 08/21 6:14 PM >>>
Greg...

Would you please look at the requirements we established for the original RET
certification.  I'm not sure it would be appropriate for this new
certification...but I'd like to see an Associates Degree specifically IN Rehab
Engineering Technology be considered as making someone eligible to sit for the
exam.

Also...would you please give us an update on what's happening and a timeline.

Thanks!!

Jerry

Greg McGrew wrote:

> Fellow Technical People in Rehab:
>
> In order to offer the RET credential, one needs to specify the full compliment
of eligibility requirements for those taking the exam.  This includes their
educational background.  When looking at the CRE, it was simple - a bachelor
degree from an ABET accredited engineering program would be required, with the
understanding that for a limited period of time, grandfathering of some without
this background could occur.
> Now we're dealing with a credential whose educational constraints could be
open to include "engineering-related" degree programs, per the constructs
outlined by the CESB for "engineering technologist" .
>
> I ask for your response to the following:
>
> Assumming that a technical degree should be required of candidates for the
RET, what degrees should be included?
>
> RELATED INFO:
> ABET also offers accreditation to programs they refer to as
"engineering-related".  Such programs are required to have their "roots in
mathematics and basic sciences, but to carry knowledge further toward creative
application".  They refer to those programs that apply the knowledge of how
things work (math and science) to innovative application to the "needs and
problems of society...to achieve viable solutions"  (problem-solving).
>
> (Check out "2001-2002 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering-Related Programs"
at www.abet.org)
>
> The criteria they outline appear to constitute a good technical foundation to
build upon for the pursuit of practice in our field.
>
> PERSONAL OPINION -
> ABET has done a nice job of meeting our criteria for engineering-related
programs, that of training in the application of mathematical and scientific
knowledge through an organized, systematic problem-solving process.  I, for one,
don't feel qualified or capable of specifying each and every non-engineering
degree program which ought to be included as eligible.
>
> We're helping define a path for future practitioners to pursue towards the
credential.  As one with an engineering education, I'd like that credential to
reflect an educational background that includes the technical problem-solving
elements as defined by an acknowledged technical accreditation body (ABET). 
Those currently deserving a shot at the RET because of experience-based skill
and ability who lack a required degree will be offered the shot through
grandfathering.
>
> I suggest eligibility for the RET include a bachelor degree from an ABET
accredited engineering or engineering-related program.
>
> Gregory W. McGrew
> Center for Rehabilitation Technology
> Helen Hayes Hospital
> 845-786-4587
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
********************************************************************
  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                 Tel: 802-863-3222
  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
  35 Western Ave                         Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
  Burlington, VT 05401                   URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************




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Jerry and Greg,

I don't think this fits at all within the board decision regarding the RET.  The
decision, which was consciously made, was for this certification to require a
minimum of a bachelors degree (except for the possibility of a few who are
grandfathered in).  The issue of a certification for people trained at the
Associate's level is a separate one.

Simon


Simon P. Levine, Ph.D.
Professor
Director, Rehabilitation Engineering Program
Departments of Physical Medicine and Rehab.
and Biomedical Engineering
phone:  734 936-7170
fax:   734 936-7515

>>> mcgrewg@helenhayeshosp.org 08/22/01 01:32PM >>>
Jerry,
I asked Jean layout the process to the first exam.  Her response follows. 
Regarding the inclusion of assoc. degree in rehab engineering tech., I'll look
at what was set up for the original RET.  I should probably know, but are there
any existing assoc. programs for rehab engineering technology?  ...if so, are
they ABET accredited under ABET's provision for such programs?

>Greg,

I spoke with the test developers and they feel as sson as we have the
Candidate's Information Bulletin completed they can have the RE test ready
administration.

We need the degree information for the CIB and will want to distrubute the
applications - far and wide.  We are aiming for a first adminstration to be
CSUN - March , 2002; as the next largest gathering of potential candidates
following the Oct. Medtrade meeting.

Let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks for the great work on identifying degrees.
Jeannie<


>>> Jerry Weisman <jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu> 08/21 6:14 PM >>>
Greg...

Would you please look at the requirements we established for the original RET
certification.  I'm not sure it would be appropriate for this new
certification...but I'd like to see an Associates Degree specifically IN Rehab
Engineering Technology be considered as making someone eligible to sit for the
exam.

Also...would you please give us an update on what's happening and a timeline.

Thanks!!

Jerry

Greg McGrew wrote:

> Fellow Technical People in Rehab:
>
> In order to offer the RET credential, one needs to specify the full compliment
of eligibility requirements for those taking the exam.  This includes their
educational background.  When looking at the CRE, it was simple - a bachelor
degree from an ABET accredited engineering program would be required, with the
understanding that for a limited period of time, grandfathering of some without
this background could occur.
> Now we're dealing with a credential whose educational constraints could be
open to include "engineering-related" degree programs, per the constructs
outlined by the CESB for "engineering technologist" .
>
> I ask for your response to the following:
>
> Assumming that a technical degree should be required of candidates for the
RET, what degrees should be included?
>
> RELATED INFO:
> ABET also offers accreditation to programs they refer to as
"engineering-related".  Such programs are required to have their "roots in
mathematics and basic sciences, but to carry knowledge further toward creative
application".  They refer to those programs that apply the knowledge of how
things work (math and science) to innovative application to the "needs and
problems of society...to achieve viable solutions"  (problem-solving).
>
> (Check out "2001-2002 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering-Related Programs"
at www.abet.org)
>
> The criteria they outline appear to constitute a good technical foundation to
build upon for the pursuit of practice in our field.
>
> PERSONAL OPINION -
> ABET has done a nice job of meeting our criteria for engineering-related
programs, that of training in the application of mathematical and scientific
knowledge through an organized, systematic problem-solving process.  I, for one,
don't feel qualified or capable of specifying each and every non-engineering
degree program which ought to be included as eligible.
>
> We're helping define a path for future practitioners to pursue towards the
credential.  As one with an engineering education, I'd like that credential to
reflect an educational background that includes the technical problem-solving
elements as defined by an acknowledged technical accreditation body (ABET). 
Those currently deserving a shot at the RET because of experience-based skill
and ability who lack a required degree will be offered the shot through
grandfathering.
>
> I suggest eligibility for the RET include a bachelor degree from an ABET
accredited engineering or engineering-related program.
>
> Gregory W. McGrew
> Center for Rehabilitation Technology
> Helen Hayes Hospital
> 845-786-4587
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
********************************************************************
  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                 Tel: 802-863-3222
  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
  35 Western Ave                         Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
  Burlington, VT 05401                   URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Greg, for some reason I did not receive your original message until Jerry's
response message came through to me today. Anyway, I hope this isn't too
late or that I've missed some pertinent details.

As a "technical person in Rehab" with two degrees in Design, I believed, in
the past, that I would have qualified to sit for at least the CRET exam, if
not the CRE exam. I hope that I will still qualify for at least one of the
credentialing exams with my academic background and professional experience
(16 years). As you say, there may be some scenario in which I would be
grandfathered in, but I'm thinking of this in a larger sense. I hope the
door isn't closed in the future to others who have similar academic degrees.

Thanks,
Bill


William Armstrong, MS, ATP
Assistive Technology Programs
Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago
warmstrong@rehabchicago.org
(312) 238-6409


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Weisman [SMTP:jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 05:15 PM
> To: RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RESNAre-psg] What degrees are eligible?  (...please
> stay with me on  this.)
>
> Greg...
>
> Would you please look at the requirements we established for the original
> RET certification.  I'm not sure it would be appropriate for this new
> certification...but I'd like to see an Associates Degree specifically IN
> Rehab Engineering Technology be considered as making someone eligible to
> sit for the exam.
>
> Also...would you please give us an update on what's happening and a
> timeline.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Jerry
>
> Greg McGrew wrote:
>
> > Fellow Technical People in Rehab:
> >
> > In order to offer the RET credential, one needs to specify the full
> compliment of eligibility requirements for those taking the exam.  This
> includes their educational background.  When looking at the CRE, it was
> simple - a bachelor degree from an ABET accredited engineering program
> would be required, with the understanding that for a limited period of
> time, grandfathering of some without this background could occur.
> > Now we're dealing with a credential whose educational constraints could
> be open to include "engineering-related" degree programs, per the
> constructs outlined by the CESB for "engineering technologist" .
> >
> > I ask for your response to the following:
> >
> > Assumming that a technical degree should be required of candidates for
> the RET, what degrees should be included?
> >
> > RELATED INFO:
> > ABET also offers accreditation to programs they refer to as
> "engineering-related".  Such programs are required to have their "roots in
> mathematics and basic sciences, but to carry knowledge further toward
> creative application".  They refer to those programs that apply the
> knowledge of how things work (math and science) to innovative application
> to the "needs and problems of society...to achieve viable solutions"
> (problem-solving).
> >
> > (Check out "2001-2002 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering-Related
> Programs" at www.abet.org)
> >
> > The criteria they outline appear to constitute a good technical
> foundation to build upon for the pursuit of practice in our field.
> >
> > PERSONAL OPINION -
> > ABET has done a nice job of meeting our criteria for engineering-related
> programs, that of training in the application of mathematical and
> scientific knowledge through an organized, systematic problem-solving
> process.  I, for one, don't feel qualified or capable of specifying each
> and every non-engineering degree program which ought to be included as
> eligible.
> >
> > We're helping define a path for future practitioners to pursue towards
> the credential.  As one with an engineering education, I'd like that
> credential to reflect an educational background that includes the
> technical problem-solving elements as defined by an acknowledged technical
> accreditation body (ABET).  Those currently deserving a shot at the RET
> because of experience-based skill and ability who lack a required degree
> will be offered the shot through grandfathering.
> >
> > I suggest eligibility for the RET include a bachelor degree from an ABET
> accredited engineering or engineering-related program.
> >
> > Gregory W. McGrew
> > Center for Rehabilitation Technology
> > Helen Hayes Hospital
> > 845-786-4587
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> ********************************************************************
>  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                 Tel: 802-863-3222
>  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
>  35 Western Ave                         Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
>  Burlington, VT 05401                   URL: www.atsolutions.org
> ********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

=====================================================================

The information contained in this e-mail message is from the
Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago and may be privileged,
confidential and protected from disclosure.  If you are not the
intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is
strictly prohibited.  If you think that you have received this e-mail
message in error, please delete the e-mail, and either e-mail the
sender at the above address or notify us at our telephone number
(312) 238-1234.

=====================================================================

Bill,
I know there are some who share your concerns, and I appreciate your voicing
them.
If you feel that a degree in design is an appropriate technical educational
background through which a Rehabilitation Engineering Technologist can choose to
pass, would you have suggestions regarding which types of design programs should
be included?

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

>>> William Armstrong <warmstrong@rehabchicago.org> 08/22 2:21 PM >>>
Greg, for some reason I did not receive your original message until Jerry's
response message came through to me today. Anyway, I hope this isn't too
late or that I've missed some pertinent details.

As a "technical person in Rehab" with two degrees in Design, I believed, in
the past, that I would have qualified to sit for at least the CRET exam, if
not the CRE exam. I hope that I will still qualify for at least one of the
credentialing exams with my academic background and professional experience
(16 years). As you say, there may be some scenario in which I would be
grandfathered in, but I'm thinking of this in a larger sense. I hope the
door isn't closed in the future to others who have similar academic degrees.

Thanks,
Bill


William Armstrong, MS, ATP
Assistive Technology Programs
Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago
warmstrong@rehabchicago.org
(312) 238-6409


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Weisman [SMTP:jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 05:15 PM
> To: RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RESNAre-psg] What degrees are eligible?  (...please
> stay with me on  this.)
>
> Greg...
>
> Would you please look at the requirements we established for the original
> RET certification.  I'm not sure it would be appropriate for this new
> certification...but I'd like to see an Associates Degree specifically IN
> Rehab Engineering Technology be considered as making someone eligible to
> sit for the exam.
>
> Also...would you please give us an update on what's happening and a
> timeline.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Jerry
>
> Greg McGrew wrote:
>
> > Fellow Technical People in Rehab:
> >
> > In order to offer the RET credential, one needs to specify the full
> compliment of eligibility requirements for those taking the exam.  This
> includes their educational background.  When looking at the CRE, it was
> simple - a bachelor degree from an ABET accredited engineering program
> would be required, with the understanding that for a limited period of
> time, grandfathering of some without this background could occur.
> > Now we're dealing with a credential whose educational constraints could
> be open to include "engineering-related" degree programs, per the
> constructs outlined by the CESB for "engineering technologist" .
> >
> > I ask for your response to the following:
> >
> > Assumming that a technical degree should be required of candidates for
> the RET, what degrees should be included?
> >
> > RELATED INFO:
> > ABET also offers accreditation to programs they refer to as
> "engineering-related".  Such programs are required to have their "roots in
> mathematics and basic sciences, but to carry knowledge further toward
> creative application".  They refer to those programs that apply the
> knowledge of how things work (math and science) to innovative application
> to the "needs and problems of society...to achieve viable solutions"
> (problem-solving).
> >
> > (Check out "2001-2002 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering-Related
> Programs" at www.abet.org)
> >
> > The criteria they outline appear to constitute a good technical
> foundation to build upon for the pursuit of practice in our field.
> >
> > PERSONAL OPINION -
> > ABET has done a nice job of meeting our criteria for engineering-related
> programs, that of training in the application of mathematical and
> scientific knowledge through an organized, systematic problem-solving
> process.  I, for one, don't feel qualified or capable of specifying each
> and every non-engineering degree program which ought to be included as
> eligible.
> >
> > We're helping define a path for future practitioners to pursue towards
> the credential.  As one with an engineering education, I'd like that
> credential to reflect an educational background that includes the
> technical problem-solving elements as defined by an acknowledged technical
> accreditation body (ABET).  Those currently deserving a shot at the RET
> because of experience-based skill and ability who lack a required degree
> will be offered the shot through grandfathering.
> >
> > I suggest eligibility for the RET include a bachelor degree from an ABET
> accredited engineering or engineering-related program.
> >
> > Gregory W. McGrew
> > Center for Rehabilitation Technology
> > Helen Hayes Hospital
> > 845-786-4587
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> ********************************************************************
>  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                 Tel: 802-863-3222
>  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
>  35 Western Ave                         Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
>  Burlington, VT 05401                   URL: www.atsolutions.org
> ********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

=====================================================================

The information contained in this e-mail message is from the
Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago and may be privileged,
confidential and protected from disclosure.  If you are not the
intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is
strictly prohibited.  If you think that you have received this e-mail
message in error, please delete the e-mail, and either e-mail the
sender at the above address or notify us at our telephone number
(312) 238-1234.

=====================================================================


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Greg,
Thanks for your reply. Sorry about the delay, I've been away from my e-mail
source for a few days. Regarding "which types of design programs": I believe
those types which would be applicable fall under the category of Industrial
Design. The Industrial Designers Society of America (IDSA), in conjunction
with the National Association of Schools of Art and Design (NASAD) has
awarded accreditation to approximately 50 schools in the USA with Industrial
Design programs. These accredited programs/schools may be viewed at
www.idsa.org/studentedu/collegegrad.htm. I would suggest that a degree(s)
from one of these accredited ID programs should fulfill the academic
requirement to sit for the credentialing exam. Please let me know if you
require further information. Thanks for your consideration.
-Bill

William Armstrong MS, ATP
Assistive Technology Programs
Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago
warmstrong@rehabchicago.org
(312) 238-6409


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg McGrew [SMTP:mcgrewg@helenhayeshosp.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 03:12 PM
> To: RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [RESNAre-psg] What degrees are eligible?  (...please
> stay with me on  this.)
>
> Bill,
> I know there are some who share your concerns, and I appreciate your
> voicing them.
> If you feel that a degree in design is an appropriate technical
> educational background through which a Rehabilitation Engineering
> Technologist can choose to pass, would you have suggestions regarding
> which types of design programs should be included?
>
> Gregory W. McGrew
> Center for Rehabilitation Technology
> Helen Hayes Hospital
> 845-786-4587
>
> >>> William Armstrong <warmstrong@rehabchicago.org> 08/22 2:21 PM >>>
> Greg, for some reason I did not receive your original message until
> Jerry's
> response message came through to me today. Anyway, I hope this isn't too
> late or that I've missed some pertinent details.
>
> As a "technical person in Rehab" with two degrees in Design, I believed,
> in
> the past, that I would have qualified to sit for at least the CRET exam,
> if
> not the CRE exam. I hope that I will still qualify for at least one of the
> credentialing exams with my academic background and professional
> experience
> (16 years). As you say, there may be some scenario in which I would be
> grandfathered in, but I'm thinking of this in a larger sense. I hope the
> door isn't closed in the future to others who have similar academic
> degrees.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
>
> William Armstrong, MS, ATP
> Assistive Technology Programs
> Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago
> warmstrong@rehabchicago.org
> (312) 238-6409
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jerry Weisman [SMTP:jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 05:15 PM
> > To: RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [RESNAre-psg] What degrees are eligible?  (...please
> > stay with me on  this.)
> >
> > Greg...
> >
> > Would you please look at the requirements we established for the
> original
> > RET certification.  I'm not sure it would be appropriate for this new
> > certification...but I'd like to see an Associates Degree specifically IN
> > Rehab Engineering Technology be considered as making someone eligible to
> > sit for the exam.
> >
> > Also...would you please give us an update on what's happening and a
> > timeline.
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Greg McGrew wrote:
> >
> > > Fellow Technical People in Rehab:
> > >
> > > In order to offer the RET credential, one needs to specify the full
> > compliment of eligibility requirements for those taking the exam.  This
> > includes their educational background.  When looking at the CRE, it was
> > simple - a bachelor degree from an ABET accredited engineering program
> > would be required, with the understanding that for a limited period of
> > time, grandfathering of some without this background could occur.
> > > Now we're dealing with a credential whose educational constraints
> could
> > be open to include "engineering-related" degree programs, per the
> > constructs outlined by the CESB for "engineering technologist" .
> > >
> > > I ask for your response to the following:
> > >
> > > Assumming that a technical degree should be required of candidates for
> > the RET, what degrees should be included?
> > >
> > > RELATED INFO:
> > > ABET also offers accreditation to programs they refer to as
> > "engineering-related".  Such programs are required to have their "roots
> in
> > mathematics and basic sciences, but to carry knowledge further toward
> > creative application".  They refer to those programs that apply the
> > knowledge of how things work (math and science) to innovative
> application
> > to the "needs and problems of society...to achieve viable solutions"
> > (problem-solving).
> > >
> > > (Check out "2001-2002 Criteria for Accrediting Engineering-Related
> > Programs" at www.abet.org)
> > >
> > > The criteria they outline appear to constitute a good technical
> > foundation to build upon for the pursuit of practice in our field.
> > >
> > > PERSONAL OPINION -
> > > ABET has done a nice job of meeting our criteria for
> engineering-related
> > programs, that of training in the application of mathematical and
> > scientific knowledge through an organized, systematic problem-solving
> > process.  I, for one, don't feel qualified or capable of specifying each
> > and every non-engineering degree program which ought to be included as
> > eligible.
> > >
> > > We're helping define a path for future practitioners to pursue towards
> > the credential.  As one with an engineering education, I'd like that
> > credential to reflect an educational background that includes the
> > technical problem-solving elements as defined by an acknowledged
> technical
> > accreditation body (ABET).  Those currently deserving a shot at the RET
> > because of experience-based skill and ability who lack a required degree
> > will be offered the shot through grandfathering.
> > >
> > > I suggest eligibility for the RET include a bachelor degree from an
> ABET
> > accredited engineering or engineering-related program.
> > >
> > > Gregory W. McGrew
> > > Center for Rehabilitation Technology
> > > Helen Hayes Hospital
> > > 845-786-4587
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > --
> > ********************************************************************
> >  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                 Tel: 802-863-3222
> >  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
> >  35 Western Ave                         Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
> >  Burlington, VT 05401                   URL: www.atsolutions.org
> > ********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
> =====================================================================
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message is from the
> Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago and may be privileged,
> confidential and protected from disclosure.  If you are not the
> intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination,
> distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is
> strictly prohibited.  If you think that you have received this e-mail
> message in error, please delete the e-mail, and either e-mail the
> sender at the above address or notify us at our telephone number
> (312) 238-1234.
>
> =====================================================================
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

=====================================================================

The information contained in this e-mail message is from the
Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago and may be privileged,
confidential and protected from disclosure.  If you are not the
intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is
strictly prohibited.  If you think that you have received this e-mail
message in error, please delete the e-mail, and either e-mail the
sender at the above address or notify us at our telephone number
(312) 238-1234.

=====================================================================

Hey, Greg and all,

I guess I am trying to figure out the audience for the CRET.  I was thinking

that historically, the CRE was going to be the credential for those with an
engineering background, and another credential was going to be for those
without that background.  If that is the case, then it should be broader
than you defined.  I was thinking about the technician level rehab folks
that are looking for credentialing.  Is the ATP the end of the road for
them?  If I am an awesome degreed (industrial technology?) shop guy
(definitely hypothetical!) who knows my wheelchairs, doing custom fab and
the like, where do I go?  Beyond grandfathering, I guess I was thinking
about a broader scope than those even with an associate degree in
engineering.  Is it a lock that that darn "engineering" term has to be in
the letters?

One of my concerns is that by the mere title of our PSG, it may be
intimidating to others who perform technology services in a techy (vs.
therapist) way, but are not, by degree or association, engineers.  Where do
they fit in the PSG world?  The closest match is the PSG-RE, but many may
not be involved because of the possible "engineering" spin to the PSG.  Is
this the PSG for them?  Should there be another, or are we inclusive?  If
so, what about the credential for them beyond the ATP?  Perhaps this issue
shifted with the ramifications of the PE insurance deal announce in Reno.

I am on one hand, being an unsolicited voice for the voiceless, but I am
also thinking of the practical aspects of having a credential with such a
narrow scope to have an n=12, or something.  Is the case of "if you build
it, they will come?"

Well, enough random thoughts from me.  This is already more time than I had
planned to spend on this issue for this decade.

Please enlighten me, oh, wise one (or wise guy)

Paul

Paul J. Schwartz, MSIE, ATP, CPE
Stout Vocational Rehabilitation Institute
Assistive Technology and Assessment Center
University of Wisconsin-Stout
221 10th Ave/121 VRB
Menomonie, WI 54751
schwartzpa@uwstout.edu
voice (715)232-2378
fax (715)232-5008

Paul,
Currently, there are folks providing quality AT services through problem-solving
based on technical knowledge, skill, and experience.  Some percentage of these
folks have no engineering degree, some have no bachelors degree, and some have
no degree of any kind.  Each of these people would have the opportunity to
pursue the RET credential, once established.

I think what we are attempting to decide has more to do with what path we want
to establish for those who have yet to practice.  Do we need to establish some
educational pathway for future practitioners to travel on their way to gaining 
that knowledge and skill that we'd expect from credentialed providers?  I think
so.  The question is how broad to make the path.

I'd be interested to hear from others who feel like Paul on this.  I'm sure
they're out there.  Thanks, Paul

Also...I'm out next week, and will be back on Tuesday, 9/11/01.  In that time, I
will not be reading email, but look forward to catching any input, comments,
etc., when I return.  By then, we'll need to move forward with whatever is
decided.

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

It's been a while since we heard anything about rehab engineering certification.  I, for one, do not know exactly what is going on and what the plans are.

The rehabilitation field and assistive technology have certainly taken their share of hits from the present health care system environment, i.e. managed care.  It enhances the need for certification and quality assurance from all the players.  RESNA has certainly tried to do its part to create a quality assurance mechanism for those professionals involved in delivering assistive technology devices and services.

Unfortunately, the ONE group that needed credibility by way of credentialling, the rehabilitation engineers, remain the ONE group that does not presently have any means of being certiified.

Clearly, the assistive technology service delivery and funding systems have changed over the last 10-15 years (when discussions about certification started) as well as the role of the rehabilitation engineer.  Some may argue, there presently is no role for the rehab engineer in service delivery, while others (myself included) would argue otherwise.  I suspect few would argue that the longer rehab engineers go without the credibility of certification, the more likely the rehab engineer will disappear completely from the service delivery process and the ability to be funded for what we do.

In consultation with my most esteemed advisor and collegue, Simon Levine (he should take at least some of the credit/blame for this) I propose the following.

We, as rehab engineers, refuse to attend, i.e. boycott, the RESNA Annual meeting in Minneapolis in June, 2002 UNLESS we are assured of having a certification exam and the accompanying credential offered at, or before, the meeting.

While I can't speak for how many rehab engineers came to Reno, I do know that we are a substantial group within RESNA and not attending the meeting would certainly send a very strong message to the leadership of RESNA about our interests and needs.

What are your feelings??  Would you sign onto such a letter to the Board of Directors and the leadership of RESNA?  Do you have any other suggestions?  Whatdya say??

Take good care...and stay safe!

Jerry
--
********************************************************************
 Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                     Tel: 802-863-3222
 Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
 35 Western Ave                                Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
 Burlington, VT 05401                        URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************
 

Jerry, and group:

The Ad Hoc RET committee met via telecon last week to finalize eligibility
requirements for application to take the RET exam.  This was after input on
these requirements was solicited from RE-PSG members through this list.
My thanks to the seven of you who responded.
This input was factored into the recommendations we generated regarding
eligibility requirements to take the RET exam pre- and post- grandfathering
period.
These recommendations will be presented to the Board at their November meeting. 
Assuming approval, which I'm confident will occur, the exam should initially be
offered prior to RESNA 2002, (likely the Seating Symposium in February).

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

>>> Jerry Weisman <jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu> 10/16 2:08 PM >>>
Hi folks!

It's been a while since we heard anything about rehab engineering
certification.  I, for one, do not know exactly what is going on and
what the plans are.

The rehabilitation field and assistive technology have certainly taken
their share of hits from the present health care system environment,
i.e. managed care.  It enhances the need for certification and quality
assurance from all the players.  RESNA has certainly tried to do its
part to create a quality assurance mechanism for those professionals
involved in delivering assistive technology devices and services.

Unfortunately, the ONE group that needed credibility by way of
credentialling, the rehabilitation engineers, remain the ONE group that
does not presently have any means of being certiified.

Clearly, the assistive technology service delivery and funding systems
have changed over the last 10-15 years (when discussions about
certification started) as well as the role of the rehabilitation
engineer.  Some may argue, there presently is no role for the rehab
engineer in service delivery, while others (myself included) would argue
otherwise.  I suspect few would argue that the longer rehab engineers go
without the credibility of certification, the more likely the rehab
engineer will disappear completely from the service delivery process and
the ability to be funded for what we do.

In consultation with my most esteemed advisor and collegue, Simon Levine
(he should take at least some of the credit/blame for this) I propose
the following.

We, as rehab engineers, refuse to attend, i.e. boycott, the RESNA Annual
meeting in Minneapolis in June, 2002 UNLESS we are assured of having a
certification exam and the accompanying credential offered at, or
before, the meeting.

While I can't speak for how many rehab engineers came to Reno, I do know
that we are a substantial group within RESNA and not attending the
meeting would certainly send a very strong message to the leadership of
RESNA about our interests and needs.

What are your feelings??  Would you sign onto such a letter to the Board
of Directors and the leadership of RESNA?  Do you have any other
suggestions?  Whatdya say??

Take good care...and stay safe!

Jerry
--
********************************************************************
  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                     Tel: 802-863-3222
  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
  35 Western Ave                                Email:
jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
  Burlington, VT 05401                        URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************

I whole heartily DISAGREE.  I am sure that those working on the Rehab Eng
requirements and exam questions could use help instead of gripes and
protests.

I do not work closely enough with Rehab Eng to qualify for certification or
to contribute, but if I did and was interested in certification, I would
want to work with the development effort to make sure that the exam
developed could reasonably discriminate between those who are competent and
those who are not.  I would not stand back and throw stones because someone
else was not doing the work for me.

                          Lou Heacock P.E.
                          Research Engineer




Jerry Weisman <jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu> on 10/16/2001 02:08:32 PM

Please respond to RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com

To:   RESNA RE-PSG <RESNAre-psg@yahoogroups.com>
cc:    (bcc: Louis Heacock/National/NISH)
Subject:  [RESNAre-psg] Do you agree??




Hi folks!

It's been a while since we heard anything about rehab engineering
certification.  I, for one, do not know exactly what is going on and
what the plans are.

The rehabilitation field and assistive technology have certainly taken
their share of hits from the present health care system environment,
i.e. managed care.  It enhances the need for certification and quality
assurance from all the players.  RESNA has certainly tried to do its
part to create a quality assurance mechanism for those professionals
involved in delivering assistive technology devices and services.

Unfortunately, the ONE group that needed credibility by way of
credentialling, the rehabilitation engineers, remain the ONE group that
does not presently have any means of being certiified.

Clearly, the assistive technology service delivery and funding systems
have changed over the last 10-15 years (when discussions about
certification started) as well as the role of the rehabilitation
engineer.  Some may argue, there presently is no role for the rehab
engineer in service delivery, while others (myself included) would argue
otherwise.  I suspect few would argue that the longer rehab engineers go
without the credibility of certification, the more likely the rehab
engineer will disappear completely from the service delivery process and
the ability to be funded for what we do.

In consultation with my most esteemed advisor and collegue, Simon Levine
(he should take at least some of the credit/blame for this) I propose
the following.

We, as rehab engineers, refuse to attend, i.e. boycott, the RESNA Annual
meeting in Minneapolis in June, 2002 UNLESS we are assured of having a
certification exam and the accompanying credential offered at, or
before, the meeting.

While I can't speak for how many rehab engineers came to Reno, I do know
that we are a substantial group within RESNA and not attending the
meeting would certainly send a very strong message to the leadership of
RESNA about our interests and needs.

What are your feelings??  Would you sign onto such a letter to the Board
of Directors and the leadership of RESNA?  Do you have any other
suggestions?  Whatdya say??

Take good care...and stay safe!

Jerry
--
********************************************************************
  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                     Tel: 802-863-3222
  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
  35 Western Ave                                Email:
jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
  Burlington, VT 05401                        URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************

It's been a while since we heard anything about rehab engineering certification.  I, for one, do not know exactly what is going on and what the plans are.

The rehabilitation field and assistive technology have certainly taken their share of hits from the present health care system environment, i.e. managed care.  It enhances the need for certification and quality assurance from all the players.  RESNA has certainly tried to do its part to create a quality assurance mechanism for those professionals involved in delivering assistive technology devices and services.

Unfortunately, the ONE group that needed credibility by way of credentialling, the rehabilitation engineers, remain the ONE group that does not presently have any means of being certiified.

Clearly, the assistive technology service delivery and funding systems have changed over the last 10-15 years (when discussions about certification started) as well as the role of the rehabilitation engineer.  Some may argue, there presently is no role for the rehab engineer in service delivery, while others (myself included) would argue otherwise.  I suspect few would argue that the longer rehab engineers go without the credibility of certification, the more likely the rehab engineer will disappear completely from the service delivery process and the ability to be funded for what we do.

In consultation with my most esteemed advisor and collegue, Simon Levine (he should take at least some of the credit/blame for this) I propose the following.

We, as rehab engineers, refuse to attend, i.e. boycott, the RESNA Annual meeting in Minneapolis in June, 2002 UNLESS we are assured of having a certification exam and the accompanying credential offered at, or before, the meeting.

While I can't speak for how many rehab engineers came to Reno, I do know that we are a substantial group within RESNA and not attending the meeting would certainly send a very strong message to the leadership of RESNA about our interests and needs.

What are your feelings??  Would you sign onto such a letter to the Board of Directors and the leadership of RESNA?  Do you have any other suggestions?  Whatdya say??

Take good care...and stay safe!

Jerry
--
********************************************************************
 Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                     Tel: 802-863-3222
 Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
 35 Western Ave                                Email: jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
 Burlington, VT 05401                        URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************
 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RESNAre-psg-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

..I mean Seating Symposium in MARCH, not February.  Sorry.

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

>>> "Greg McGrew" <mcgrewg@helenhayeshosp.org> 10/16 2:24 PM >>>
Jerry, and group:

The Ad Hoc RET committee met via telecon last week to finalize eligibility
requirements for application to take the RET exam.  This was after input on
these requirements was solicited from RE-PSG members through this list.
My thanks to the seven of you who responded.
This input was factored into the recommendations we generated regarding
eligibility requirements to take the RET exam pre- and post- grandfathering
period.
These recommendations will be presented to the Board at their November meeting. 
Assuming approval, which I'm confident will occur, the exam should initially be
offered prior to RESNA 2002, (likely the Seating Symposium in February).

Gregory W. McGrew
Center for Rehabilitation Technology
Helen Hayes Hospital
845-786-4587

>>> Jerry Weisman <jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu> 10/16 2:08 PM >>>
Hi folks!

It's been a while since we heard anything about rehab engineering
certification.  I, for one, do not know exactly what is going on and
what the plans are.

The rehabilitation field and assistive technology have certainly taken
their share of hits from the present health care system environment,
i.e. managed care.  It enhances the need for certification and quality
assurance from all the players.  RESNA has certainly tried to do its
part to create a quality assurance mechanism for those professionals
involved in delivering assistive technology devices and services.

Unfortunately, the ONE group that needed credibility by way of
credentialling, the rehabilitation engineers, remain the ONE group that
does not presently have any means of being certiified.

Clearly, the assistive technology service delivery and funding systems
have changed over the last 10-15 years (when discussions about
certification started) as well as the role of the rehabilitation
engineer.  Some may argue, there presently is no role for the rehab
engineer in service delivery, while others (myself included) would argue
otherwise.  I suspect few would argue that the longer rehab engineers go
without the credibility of certification, the more likely the rehab
engineer will disappear completely from the service delivery process and
the ability to be funded for what we do.

In consultation with my most esteemed advisor and collegue, Simon Levine
(he should take at least some of the credit/blame for this) I propose
the following.

We, as rehab engineers, refuse to attend, i.e. boycott, the RESNA Annual
meeting in Minneapolis in June, 2002 UNLESS we are assured of having a
certification exam and the accompanying credential offered at, or
before, the meeting.

While I can't speak for how many rehab engineers came to Reno, I do know
that we are a substantial group within RESNA and not attending the
meeting would certainly send a very strong message to the leadership of
RESNA about our interests and needs.

What are your feelings??  Would you sign onto such a letter to the Board
of Directors and the leadership of RESNA?  Do you have any other
suggestions?  Whatdya say??

Take good care...and stay safe!

Jerry
--
********************************************************************
  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                     Tel: 802-863-3222
  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
  35 Western Ave                                Email:
jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
  Burlington, VT 05401                        URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************




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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Is there any evidence to show that the ATP/ATS has impacted in any way a
provider's ability to receive funding for their services?  I was under the
impression that one of the reasons for that credential was to lend legitimacy to
the assistive techology field, one of the benefits of which would be improved
reimbursement for services.  The reason I ask is that, since I personally have
not seen nor heard of the ATP/ATS having any impact whatsoever on insurance
reimbursement, what makes us think that a rehab engineering certification would
be any different?  Not trying to be cynical or unsupportive of everyone's
efforts but has anyone working on this determined that funding sources would be
willing to reimburse for rehab engineering services given the appropriate
credential, or is this just an assumption?

Scott Draper, MSBE, ATP
Iowa Methodist Medical Center
Bio-Tech Services
Des Moines, IA  50309
drapersa@ihs.org

>>> jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu 10/16/01 01:08PM >>>
Hi folks!

It's been a while since we heard anything about rehab engineering
certification.  I, for one, do not know exactly what is going on and
what the plans are.

The rehabilitation field and assistive technology have certainly taken
their share of hits from the present health care system environment,
i.e. managed care.  It enhances the need for certification and quality
assurance from all the players.  RESNA has certainly tried to do its
part to create a quality assurance mechanism for those professionals
involved in delivering assistive technology devices and services.

Unfortunately, the ONE group that needed credibility by way of
credentialling, the rehabilitation engineers, remain the ONE group that
does not presently have any means of being certiified.

Clearly, the assistive technology service delivery and funding systems
have changed over the last 10-15 years (when discussions about
certification started) as well as the role of the rehabilitation
engineer.  Some may argue, there presently is no role for the rehab
engineer in service delivery, while others (myself included) would argue
otherwise.  I suspect few would argue that the longer rehab engineers go
without the credibility of certification, the more likely the rehab
engineer will disappear completely from the service delivery process and
the ability to be funded for what we do.

In consultation with my most esteemed advisor and collegue, Simon Levine
(he should take at least some of the credit/blame for this) I propose
the following.

We, as rehab engineers, refuse to attend, i.e. boycott, the RESNA Annual
meeting in Minneapolis in June, 2002 UNLESS we are assured of having a
certification exam and the accompanying credential offered at, or
before, the meeting.

While I can't speak for how many rehab engineers came to Reno, I do know
that we are a substantial group within RESNA and not attending the
meeting would certainly send a very strong message to the leadership of
RESNA about our interests and needs.

What are your feelings??  Would you sign onto such a letter to the Board
of Directors and the leadership of RESNA?  Do you have any other
suggestions?  Whatdya say??

Take good care...and stay safe!

Jerry
--
********************************************************************
  Gerald (Jerry) Weisman                     Tel: 802-863-3222
  Rehabilitation Technology Services     Fax: 802-863-4991
  35 Western Ave                                Email:
jweisman@vtc.vsc.edu
  Burlington, VT 05401                        URL: www.atsolutions.org
********************************************************************